Topic-Free Mega Thread - v 1.11.2020

Nobody’s interested in that :stuck_out_tongue: We all know who won, and the guy who lost needs to stop acting like a baby. It amazes me he has any credibility with news agencies, the best thing to do when a spoiled child behaves that way is ignore him, not give him air time on the news.

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Money I suppose plus it makes a lot of articles and supplies magazines and newspapers or online variants of these with material for a very long time. :smiley:
(Or online videos of similar nature.)

Getting into that too much might get a bit heated though and it’s about endless although apparently Donny T and his tower have been figured in media since at least the early 1980’s so it was a bit educational too plus a lot of old and new references even including anime. :stuck_out_tongue:

Leaving that right quick before it goes really badly hows 0.11.1.0 coming along trying to get to some topic stability of sorts feels like the various game compatibility fixes makes some of the newer builds a bit more important though if a full release is close then the replacement for 0.10.50 as the next update should resolve these issues alongside improvements to what it started with improving HDR tuning before wiring in DirectX debug functionality, anti-debug workarounds and game engine issues that by this point have become a feature it seems. :stuck_out_tongue:

0.11.1 is more or less finished, I think. I’ve been holding off releasing it because I dread having to re-write the calibration guide. I have people on both sides of that issue, telling me there’s not enough tuning available and telling me it’s too complicated :stuck_out_tongue:

That means I will continue to have to refine this stuff and each time I do, it’s going to invalidate the last guide. I can really see the appeal of using AI to fake HDR when the end-user cannot complain that configuring things is not the way they would like it… the AI just takes a giant hammer and says there’s one way and only one way to do things everyone be damned :slight_smile:

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That functionality plus the different approaches to HDR between the PS5 and XBox Series X/S is quite fascinating although it sounds like Microsoft is using their resources and extensive work on the backwards compatibility program to get a lot of profiles up for when and how auto-HDR should initialize although users can still attempt to enable it even if the final results will be less than optimal and I assume there’s limited fine tuning available when handled like this.

But the new HDR settings and calibration helper could perhaps help offset some of the issues though not every game is going to benefit from how this is applied even with some tuning done.

EDIT: Hmm probably similar to SpecialK in a way there, user friendly but also extensive options for fine tuning the results and how to balance the two.

With game compatibility and various other options and overrides thrown in that could help but could also be problematic, kinda impressive it works as well as it does in many cases with all these conditions and potential problems.

EDIT: Suppose the XBox team have their challenges too in that regard, must be finding all sorts of issues and problems trying to make older X360 and XBox One titles perform decent on the One X and it’s S variant plus features like this.
(Though the hardware being the same and certification and such forces some standards unlike on PC.)

Bahahah!

AC games are usually reasonably geographically accurate, right? There’s a settlement called Mannskapsangrep in Valhalla.

That’s the only thing that comes to mind.

England appears to have the same style of naming their old places as Sweden does if nothing else. :stuck_out_tongue:

Course I have no idea yet what small part of the English western coastal area I believe is what it is has been added into the game yet as I’ve barely gotten to the settlement stuff and aside from the bigger cities I am fairly unfamiliar with Norway, beautiful landscapes though on some of the fjords and mountain areas.

EDIT: Game wise it’s a big map too somewhere around 94 square kilometers I think it was for England.

Plus once again there’s a strict speed limit enforced so anywhere near settled areas and the horse is slowed down to a light trotting speed.

Several people, including DF, have praised the SDR to HDR tonemapping on the PS5, sounds like a display bug.

Did they praise mine? :stuck_out_tongue: I’m not vain enough to watch the video about SK’s HDR. Something weird about hearing someone else talk about your own work.

Perhaps the hardware is doing a pretty good job but the users TV and calibration would also need to be set up right I assume along with a quality 2.0 or ideally a 2.1 HDMI cable to avoid compression and being able to use the full range especially if connected to a 3840x2160 TV.

Judging by the launch state of some of these and perhaps the console unit as well a few firmware updates could be needed and then functionality like variable rate refresh getting full support and not hitting any problems.

Probably more but the HDR400 - HDR800 range displays and older models are probably going to have some difficulties in terms of quality and above that it’s better but still a bit of a price increase for the high-end HDR1000 displays and things like good OLED panels and what not.

Would need to see more testing and how it looks across a wider range of displays/panels to say for sure but that and how some of the software implements HDR support perhaps as part of it.

EDIT: Sigh how to explain well I’m terrible at it but one’s really bright the others actually dynamic as in high dynamic range not just high (brightness.) and then the rest’s either missing or badly supported because the standards below HDR1000 are…somewhat…variable.
(I’m certain they could be good but since meeting the cert is more open I assume the standard quality is overall a bit on the lower side.)

Hmm perhaps HDR movie playback would make for a good test too over how a game implements it come to think of it, course the user would still have to do a fair job of calibration and setting it all up but it’d remove the software implementation of this entire thing.

Suppose the same kinda works for Windows and PC HDR support where implemented like HDR video playback in supported browsers or similar.

Guessing that while improved over computer display HDR functionality the TV HDR situation is still quite varied in implementation and supported stuff plus the factory calibration and tendency to over increase brightness or one of the color channels stuff like that depending on how sensitive the user is.
Hard to get it done really well though without hardware calibration probably even more difficult with a higher range working with HDR and all that.

Well there’s probably going to be some interesting technical articles and comparisons and reviews on the subject on both the Playstation and XBox side and comparisons between the two.
Maybe something Microsoft might also start bringing over more to PC in later Windows 10 builds as a result for some of their additions.

EDIT: Not like I’m an expert on the subject though, just basically a range of questions and ideas and theories I suppose is more like what this is.

SDR → HDR for movie playback is extremely difficult. SDR → HDR for rendering is trivial, since you can change the precision of the image the game renders into before expanding the range. Movies are stuck at 8-bit precision, and if you try to expand their range it ain’t pretty.

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To be honest, it could just be my subjective tastes. I’ve tried using SpecialK’s recent HDR stuff into FFXIV and I have the exact same complaint. Except with SpecialK’s I can jack up the saturation and that at least hides what I see as “muted” colors. And without the muted colors the dimness doesn’t seem as pronounced to me. Unfortunately on the PS5 I can’t mess with its saturation, and I didn’t really think to try and tweak that on my TV tbh. I’ll have to try it, I guess.

It’s never good to do these tweaks on the TV itself… they’re dealing with a signal that was already squished down to lower precision than the engine that created the image. If a color saturation adjust is needed for some reason in a game’s HDR implementation, you want it done by the engine in the engine’s 16-bit precision colorspace.

Final Fantasy XIV has more muted color palette too far as I’ve seen so that might be tougher to work into HDR as a result, something a lot of games tend to have almost going from looking gray or “foggy” to washed out very dull or bleak.

Suppose some shader effects like noise or dithering could also be difficult if present you’d get worse results or it’s tougher to set it up satisfactory.

EDIT: It has vibrant areas too but going by the images and media I’m checking out there’s a lot of very gray toned areas and some are really dull looking in terms of coloration.

EDIT: Perhaps it’s a bit of a MMO issue when going back to older content and areas that might not have been as revised or overhauled as the later expansion content too.

EDIT: Maybe that’s why some games go full vibrancy too then the HDR could be all blown up and out and incredibly high-contrast while still within the intended artistic style or how the visuals were meant to be presented.

More to it than just brightness though whether it’s very dark or very bright areas or overall dull or gray tones or lack of color and contrast or a abundance thereof.

Come to think of it that might be why having tone mapping overrides as a option could be really handy along with the other overrides.
(There’s one already I think.)

Ya, FFXIV can be rather muted. My complaints on the PS5 most stemmed from Persona 5 Royal and Hatsune Miku Future Tone. P5R red is very pronounced and it just seems grayish in HDR. And Miku’s hair is no where near as vibrant as it should be. FFXIV I could have lived with it tbh.

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There are perceptual differences in color as you increase luminance. It’s entirely possible that SONY just built their HDR (thingamajig…? seriously, what should these things be called?) with the sole task of increasing luminance and did not compensate for perceptual color?

SK has a bit of said compensation, though I do not perform massive amounts of correction as I figure it’s best to be conservative and give the user a slider if they want even more saturation.


As the first party to actually implement this SDR → HDR stuff for games, I think I should get naming rights, no? :stuck_out_tongue: Let’s brainstorm :wink:

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Lmao, already cancelled my Ubisoft+ subscription. Should’ve just gotten Horizon ZD :stuck_out_tongue:

They are probably doing something similar to whatever SpecialK does, because FFXIV looks pretty damn close to what it looks like with SpecialK after having tweaked the Peak Luminance and Middle gray (so without touching the SDR-HDR Gamma and Saturation).

Have you tried one of the newer releases?

The Paper White luminance slider was added just recently, with that set low saturation on dark objects is muted and really bright objects receive more saturation. It’s actually more faithful to the original SDR image this way. But people still complain there’s not enough saturation :-\