Must be tough for Epics legal team with how Tim is doing all his Twitter antics but this was expected as Apple gave Epic two weeks time to remove the out-of-app store purchase option they added which they did not and so this temporary restriction order as a early legal dispute where Apple can not remove the main Epic account but has blocked the one for Fortnite and a few other games now.
(Fortnite as the major one though.)
Epic trying to twist it to their benefit and who knows how this ongoing legal dispute will go and what will be happening or how it will be settled eventually plus the ongoing other legal developments with Apple.
I’m not sure how that’s relevant, to be honest? Epic even knowingly informed both Apple and Google about how they were planning to break the terms of service before they did so, by sending a mail to both heads a couple of hours or day before hand.
All Epic’s actions are basically orchestrated and planned out well in advance.
Except, I guess, for the actions related to preventing the removal of developer accounts connected to the Epic International legal entity.
I don’t think Epic, Tim, or their layers thought Apple was going to do that as that corporation had not broken any terms of services with Apple.
For Apple, the reason given was that otherwise Epic could’ve started a shell game, where the app that broke the terms of service was simply moved over to the other connected legal entity (the one that houses Unreal Engine, that is).
Twist what, exactly? The block for Apple in removing Unreal Engine’s developer accounts? Or the whole situation entirely?
At the core of the discussion and case lies the 30% revenue cut that Apple (and Google on the Play Store) mandates on the platform, and in that regard a decrease of that revenue cut is a win for all developers.
From what I read Apple used some of Tim Sweeney’s twitter excerpts in this legal dispute to strengthen their claims though I don’t see the outcome having been affected too much for this initial result giving Apple a no for removing the Epic accounts entirely but granting the right to remove the one for Fortnite. (And some other titles.)
For the ongoing legal debate it’s stuff like this and I need to delve into it a bit more beyond “Epic weaponizing Fortnite playing children.” and whatever sensationalist clickbait wonders some of the news articles are doing here.
EDIT: The 30% cut itself could certainly be lowered though I don’t disagree on that plus how this is utilized by different publishing platforms but I would think 20 - 25% would be doable if the standard were to be possible to budge at all.
Getting that to happen though involves some very big players ranging from Microsoft and Sony to Nintendo and then also Valve/Steam and possibly involved parties such as Tencent or Facebook or other very big corporations I don’t see it being possible.
I have no stakes in either, they’re both big corporations just have some big battle as far as i’m concerned. But i can’t say i’ve cared to look into the situation properly. From what i have seen, there’s only one thing that rubs me the wrong way.
That’s a older advert from 1984 and the launch of a Apple system I believe though Fortnite themed here.
EDIT:
EDIT: There is so much drama and online tension between EGS and Apple so it’s hard to get good info and facts, much of what I find is also heavily biased against either or both parties so that complicates matters plus it drives ads and clicks so you get the weirdest of takes and it’s tough to get good info and less biased presentations.
They’re parodying Apple’s old advertisement about IBM in the 90s or whenever.
They’re using Fortnite’s block to basically inform and generate buzz about the larger conversation about enforced 30% revenue cuts on “general purpose computing” platforms in modern times.
It’s honestly surprising that they’re willing to take and make use of Fortnite in the fight. I would not expect that from the vast majority of developers.
Through Reset Era which depending on who is posting what yeah that is a bit biased between Epic and free games which is a big thing for a lot of users on there and Apple and back and forth.
Honestly surprised on the low amount of bans which would have happened if it had been MS or Sony here and then console warring reasoning and user hostility and such.
Corporations and their ideas I guess, Ubisoft hit some backlash earlier today or yesterday over a Tom Clancy online game borrowing a popular logo a little bit too close to the source of I believe it’s a group involved in Black Lives Matter going by the discussion there.
Non-political indeed.
Back then this was probably big though plus different values and all that going by the original Apple commercial and the book 1984 and this being done 1984.
Mhm, which makes it so surprising, but I can’t help but respect Epic a bit for actually having the balls to make that decision. Now arguably iOS isn’t the largest platform for Fortnite, but it’s still quite a lot of money that Epic have chosen to go without during their fight with Apple is ongoing.
Ugh, there’s only one place that’s arguably worse than Reset Era, and that is NeoGAF.
It’s not the best source but it’s what I have along with Meta Council since NeoGaf went under.
RPG Codex more as a parody known more “hostile” source and obvious bias plus Something Awful but the long-time forums and the admin seem to have gone … very bad so it’s going through some changes too now.
(That place was rough, very rough, some years ago but then got a bit better and now it’s going very badly due to some pretty bad problems here I haven’t fully read up on all of this.)
EDIT: Well Neo is still around but only a small part of the former community is there far as I know.
Reset Era started good but it got complicated fast past the first year possibly even during it leading to a lot of problems and reduction in involvement from actual industry staff other than a few that remain though that’s shrunk too.
EDIT: Meta has been pretty good though but it’s much smaller although the discussion is actually useful past the opening post so that’s a obvious improvement already even if it’s less active.
There’s way too many factors to consider (some that i’m possibly skipping over). I don’t agree with Apple removing anything to do with Unreal Engine. And it’s true Epic have been helping a ton of smaller devs with their tool being free to develop on, and i believe also free to release a game using till you hit a certain sales target. Epic can also be scummy in their own way, stealing Steam games when Steam’s 30 percent cut is actually sensible if it means getting a more stable platform to host their games. I’m ignoring Steam moderators in the community hub ofc. I’ve used EGS a few times and it’s a really basic platform imo. Plus stealing games for a year is just, why.
In Apples case, being far more than just software sales so their 30 percent cut is less justified, but if that is Apples terms then that is their terms. They still have a popular platform with a huge audience for you to break into. I’m not saying i agree with that cut, just be ready for a potentially losing battle if you’re asking for a fight.
I’m against Fortnite having mtx and not clear at the forefront for the many kids playing the games. My younger brother has begged many times over for Fortnite stuff in the past. If they do need a source of income for the game, i’m hoping Fortnite is just cosmetics, and they still need it apparent to everyone’s parents that it’s a game with mtx and what type of mtx.
Honestly though, sticky situation in general that can cause potentially nasty debates. We’re better off just seeing how it plays out.
I don’t understand this notion of moving the blame from the developers/publishers whom decides to go against any previous “commitment” they’ve made, to instead blame Epic – as if Epic is somehow holding a gun to their heads and demands the games exclusively on their platform for a year.
If you have an issue with devs/pubs making that move, take it up with those devs/pubs. Don’t blame Epic for basically offering them a more enticing offer than other platforms.
Their choice actually makes a lot of sense if you contemplate the PC gaming market as a whole right now. There’s literally no ‘real’ competition to Steam’s dominance, anywhere. GOG have attempted to take a slice from Steam, first by exclusively carrying older games and then being open to everyone but offering similar or competing features and they still can barely even reach 15% of Steam’s sales number on a good release day. All other platforms carry primarily first-party titles and while e.g. Origin actually do have a couple of hundreds third-party titles in their library, nobody actually knows about that.
Dislike it or not, but timed exclusives are basically the only way successful way we’ve seen to grow a platform in this Steam dominated world.
Just think – when was the last time you heard anyone mention that Origin carried third-party titles as well?
We’ll have to see how it all turns out, but yes, Epic have been gearing up for a fight now for a while and this is simply the latest actions in a longer series of event. It’s honestly good that we start to see developers and corporations start to challenge Apple and Google on the terms for their platforms. First with Microsoft in regards to streaming services like Project xCloud and now Epic in regards to the 30% revenue cut (which isn’t even the same for all types of apps, as some have a smaller revenue cut than others?! Makes no sense).
Edit: Why the hell do I keep misspelling think as thing ?!
Because pretty much anyone can be enticed by money when you can’t be certain about sales numbers. Epic have been relying on Fortnite money to buy other games some have looked forward to on Steam, instead of just using the money to fund exclusive games for their store whilst improving the store. Add in the lower cut and they could still have third party games but priced lower than Steam, it makes sense to me to go forward that way. You already have a huge player-base in the form of kids playing Fortnite, try to capture them too while you can. Instead, Epic have created a huge base of haters.
If you have a more appropriate term than stealing, then by all means. The root behind the usage of the verb comes from what it means for consumers. If say Sekiro, a game i looked forward to turned out to be EGS exclusive for a year, when previous Fromsoft games were on Steam at launch, i’d feel betrayed. It’s hard to point fingers at the devs, when it’s possible the publishers are responsible for accepting the deal. They just see the fat wad of cash and think “oh okay”. It is all business at the end of the day, so like i said basically anyone can be enticed. In this scenario, the game would ultimately have been taken from the platform i use, by another platform. I hope that explains why i say steal.
There’s been a bit of growth from Steam sure, but no serious competition. Steam still remains incredibly dominant and will probably remain that way even if EGS keeps buying exclusive rights for a year for more upcoming games.
The intention isn’t to have yet another platform with first-party exclusive titles, but to have an actual platform with competitive third-party titles.
Like it or not, but this is the best way to compete in the current climate of the PC platform. By covering the cost of the inherent risk for devs/pubs that are interested in releasing on the platform, Epic allows them to take a dive into the platform without incurring major loses.
None the less, Epic have also announced more normal publishing deals so you’re going to see those titles eventually as well:
Eh, let’s not overstate it – it’s mostly a minority of people with hateboners whom simultaneously eats into Epic’s hand due to their inability to not mention Epic in the same breath as Steam.
I haven’t seen this much talk about a supposedly “horrible platform” since… well… forever. Nobody talks about GOG, Uplay, or Origin nowadays – it’s all just about Steam and Epic.
You can also use e.g. https://frontpagemetrics.com/ to look up the growth of the /r/■■■■■■■■ subreddit (lmao at it being censored) and see that the subreddit’s growth have basically stagnated since about a year ago. The vast majority of people don’t care any longer about the constant “Epic vs. Steam” ‘war’ that people attempts to push down everyone’s throats, and people’s continued attempt to bring it up and make people care about it will just continue to push people back.
Like, I hate that Control’s Steam discussion board is basically overrun with non-buyers whom just whines and complains about Epic, and whom tries to guilt-trip both Steam and Epic players into not purchasing easily the best game of 2019 that I’ve played. Just, no. All of those can just ■■■■ off.
Like it or not, but we have basically never seen anything close to this competition on PC yet, and as Epic continues to entice devs/pubs to release exclusively on their platform for a period of time while also finishing up more and more of their feature set we’ll just see the competition ramp up further and further.
“Entice” as that’s literally what they’re doing. They’re enticing devs/pubs to release on their platform.
entice
/ɪnˈtʌɪs,ɛnˈtʌɪs/
verb
attract or tempt by offering pleasure or advantage.
"a show which should entice a new audience into the theatre"
Time will tell if their moves so far will pay off. Right now, we have games like Fall Guys in particular taking over Steam. It’s difficult to expect Epic to account for all the upcoming potentially big games, that usually if not always look towards Steam first when publishing. Epic still needs to keep intervening, and i don’t think we know how much they can afford and keep affording. There’s always new games being released. Halo MCC has been a big hit too.
Regarding the active users, how do they monitor that exactly? The concurrent count could include many Fornite players, and we don’t know how many just downloaded a free game they can’t even run, because they saw it was free. Although this is going off just people i know, they’ve all (including myself) grabbed whatever free games EGS has offered on the house. Most have never brought anything on EGS and some have only made accounts to grab those free games. I’ve only ever installed and launched the Arkham games on EGS, since i mod those games. Of course, myself and my friends don’t represent everyone, but it is a potentially meaningful factor to consider.
Even you’ve brought Control again on Steam, i take it that means you have no reason to run the EGS version of the game again? Or maybe you just wanted to support the devs, i don’t want to make assumptions.
Edit: Like i said, i don’t deny there’s been growth from Steam, we’ve just not seen serious competition and i don’t expect to any time soon. EGS is more of “hey we gotta watch out for that”. Valve hasn’t had a reason yet to go all in. Useful sources you’ve provided btw.
There’s no telling though that EGS is becoming huge. It doesn’t really matter that users initially only are on the platform for the free games – that’s simply one of the tactics that Epic uses to get players unto the platform. They are playing the long game, where they expect a return of their “investment” into players months or possibly years later down the line.
And it seems to be working. Have we ever heard GOG’s free game giveaways even break the one million mark?
The game is worth it, and I want it on Steam as well.
The Ultimate Edition on Steam cost only like $5 more than if I were to purchase both DLCs (or its season pass) separately on Epic, so it was a no-brainer.
